You Got 400K For What???…RCS Forced To Call Bullshit On Bus Monitor Debacle

Okay, I know you guys have heard about this one.  Last week, Greece, NY bus monitor Karen Klein was harassed and bullied by 4 kids (and some helpful soul got the whole thing on video).  You can read about the story and see the video (Andy Cooper is also on this page being cute) here: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/21/karen-klein-bullying-video-bullies-apologize-to-bus-monitor_n_1617404.html.  The kids were really mean to Karen, calling her a “fat troll” and going so far as to play with her arm waddle. The internet reacted.  As of today, over 400,000 dollars has been raised to “send Karen on vacation,” and Southwest Airlines is sending Karen (and 9 other people of her choosing) on a 3-day all-expenses-paid trip to Disneyland.  Karen Klein is big news, WHY?  Is it because kids are assholes, or is it because Karen Klein was incapable of doing her job?

Let me break it down for you, folks.  I read the Greece Central School District Code of Conduct.  You can, too, if you download it here: http://www.greece.k12.ny.us/staff.cfm?subpage=1587.  The students on Karen’s bus were clearly in violation of several parts of the C of C, namely:

B. Engage in conduct that is insubordinate. Examples include (but are not limited to):

1.       Failing to comply with the reasonable directions of teachers, school administrators or other school employees in charge of students or otherwise demonstrating disrespect

D. Engage in any conduct that endangers the safety, morals, health, or welfare of others. Examples include (but are not limited to):

8.     Bullying, which is purposeful, aggressive, negative repeated, and unwelcomed harassment and/or attacks on others where there is an imbalance of power and can include behaviors such as physical violence, verbal taunts, name-calling and put-downs, or threats and intimidation.

And these aren’t their only infringements.  According to the by-laws, students who are guilty of these offenses face disciplinary action that can range from a verbal warning all to way through suspension.  It is completely within the power of the Greece, NY School District’s Department of Transportation to put these kids off the bus, and make their parents responsible for taking the kids to and from school.  All that has to happen is that the bus driver or monitor has to issue a complaint.

So, yes, the kids were wrong.  But let’s discuss for a minute, exactly what the responsibilities of a BUS MONITOR are.  A generally accepted job description for a bus monitor/attendant reads as follows:

– Monitors conduct of students on school bus to maintain discipline and   safety.
– Directs loading of students on bus to prevent congestion and unsafe conditions.
– Rides school bus to prevent altercations between students and damage to bus.
– Participates in school bus safety drills.
– May disembark from school bus at railroad crossings and clear bus across tracks.

Karen Klein is paid around $15,000 dollars/year to discharge these duties.  What did Karen Klein do to maintain discipline in this situation?  Did she warn the kids of the consequences of their actions – getting kicked off the bus, or maybe even suspension?  No.  Did she separate the trouble makers?  Nope.  Did she inform the bus driver that there was a situation and request his help in stopping it?  Uh uh.  Karen Klein sat there and took it, which is NOT handling the situation in the way that the guidelines of her job specify.  What guidelines, you ask?  The ones set in place by the New York State Department of Education Transportation Department.  According to the NYSED.gov website, bus monitors/attendants in NY State are REQUIRED to have at least 10 hours of training prior to starting their regular work – and that training involves conflict resolution and discipline.  In addition, school bus monitors/ attendants receive TWO MANDATORY 2 HOUR REFRESHER COURSES ANNUALLY.  You can read all about New York State regulations at www.nysed.gov.

Karen Klein chose to handle the situation in a manner not indicated by the protocols of her job.  Imagine if someone else did this in a different situation.  What if a Taco Bell manager just suddenly decided to ignore the regulations and save money by not refrigerating the mystery meat?  Would someone send him on a dream vacation to Cancun?  I don’t think so.  Bottom line: Karen Klein seems like a nice lady, and the kids were jerks and deserve to be punished – BUT Karen Klein wasn’t doing her job, and she shouldn’t get rewarded for her negligence.  If she had been acting according to the rules CLEARLY SET OUT FOR HER, the scenario would have been much different.  The incident never would have escalated, the offenders would have been punished, and life would have gone on.  Now, it’s national news and hokey morning tv hosts are fake crying about how bad they would feel if this happened to their grandmother.  URRGH.  Karen Klein wasn’t an innocent bystander.  She was a PAID employee who was TRAINED to handle events exactly like this one – training, I might add, that was paid for WITH STATE REVENUES.  She is not the fucking Rosa Parks of bullying.  Get over it.

One other note: I rode the bus growing up.  It was 10 miles from the town we went to school in to where many of us lived.  If we acted up on the bus, our mean old tobacco chewing bus driver would drop us off on the highway, deliver all the other kids, drive 10 miles back to the bus barn and THEN call our parents to pick us up.  We generally would have made it about 3 miles before anyone came and got us, usually crying the whole way.  This was a deterrent so effective that even when the retarded kid in the front seat, Jeremy, got totally (and very quietly) naked – which he did quite often – not one of us would so much as make a peep about it. We were a bunch of total creeps, and believe me – we were tempted, but not  enough to risk the walk home in a -18 degree wind chill.  Kelly grew up in Mississippi and also rode the bus.  She said that if kids acted up on the ride, they were immediately hauled into the principal’s office for a paddlin’ when they got to school.  Also a good deterrent.

The problem here isn’t that kids are bigger assholes now than they have been in the past.  Kids have always been dicks, and always will be.  The problem is that ADULTS ARE BIGGER PUSSIES NOW THAN THEY EVER HAVE BEEN.  We put up with shit from our kids that would have gotten US whupped into oblivion had we tried it.  We’ve been whining for some 40 years about proper child rearing techniques like dialoguing and crap, and what’s the result?  It’s that we now have a nation of 12 year old unrepentant shit heads.  Kids will always try to test limits and expand boundaries – they will also try to claim as much power from adults as they possibly can, and they’ll abuse power at every opportunity.  THAT IS HOW KIDS ARE.  It’s the adult’s responsibility to be firm and discipline kids when necessary.  I’m not saying that we should make children cut their own switches (although I did it, and let me tell you, trying to find the branch on the Willow tree that’s going to hurt the least is an experience unto itself), but we do need to make sure that kids know that being bad has consequences WHICH TOTALLY SUCK.  This is the job of anyone in charge of a kid, whether it be a daycare provider, an aunt, a parent, a teacher, a pastor – or a bus monitor.  The kids will improve – if we do.

To All You Mainstream Media Assholes: It took me under an hour to find all of this information online.  Had you folks done YOUR jobs with appropriate due diligance, you would have found it, too.  Instead, you chose to make a national martyr of a woman who is pretty much just a crappy employee.  I guess tears sell more car ads than reasoned, rational journalism.  Nice one.

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171 Responses to You Got 400K For What???…RCS Forced To Call Bullshit On Bus Monitor Debacle

  1. Petra Meyer says:

    I pretty much agree with most of this except we can’t assume that she or the bus driver were properly trained as New York State Department of Education mandated. The school district could be at fault here for never making sure their employees were trained to do the job they were hired to do. Either way, the school district deserves some of the blame here.

    • True, if the district failed to properly train its employees, they do bear some responsibility. But that’s a pretty big IF. I guess we’ll have to see! Good comment, though.

    • Anonymous says:

      Ms. Klein was a bus driver for twenty years and a bus monitor for three years at the time of this incident. Don’t give me the “wasn’t trained properly” bullshit….

      • Anonymous says:

        I hope she had training. It wasn’t even one year ago that Greece bus monitor Paul Kinney was convicted for sexually assaulting a girl under the age of 10 on his bus. You would think that the district would take that position a little more seriously.

  2. amaysia says:

    I can see where you’re coming from here. Maybe it doesn’t look like Karen Klein was doing her job (at least not in the 9 minute video, which is not to say she hasn’t tried to discipline the hooligans before). But now she has half a million dollars – and growing – and those little shit heads don’t. That ought to teach ’em.

    • Money talks! You’re absolutely right!

    • Door King says:

      They’re not hooligans you fucking shitball, they are normal Jr. high kids.

      • Ian Houlihan says:

        There is a problem If this behavior has become normal to you.

      • OLIC says:

        A thousand times yes, Ian.

      • Anonymous says:

        Do you kiss your momma with that mouth? For all the huffing and puffing and righteous indignance we see from your type when it all boils down to it, you are just like one of those cretinous little monsters. You are a bully, too. You have no manners, you must have been raised by wolves….Jesus Christ, dude… All that person did was express an opinion or viewpoint that’s different from yours and you go absolutely ballistic! Try to get a grip!

    • And from that comment I have developed myself a new excuse. “Oh no Mr. Vice-Principal, I was just bullying him to help him out with his financial problems!”

  3. Anonymous says:

    The author didn’t read the policy closely. The only direct actions prescribed in the items directed at student conduct are to ride the schoolbus (#3) and monitor the conduct of the students (#1). The policy indicates that riding the bus is intended to have the EFFECT (not action) of preventing altercations and damage, and that monitoring is intended to have the EFFECT (not action) of maintaining discipline and safety. Policies are legal documents, and written to be interpreted with a high degree of precision, not to be interpreted colloquially.

    • An interesting point. Which policy are you discussing, however — that of the NYSED of that of the Greece NY School District? If it’s the latter, you should probably note that there are clearly stated actions that should be taken regarding infractions which take place on a school bus. I don’t feel that I interpreted either document “colloquially,” but that is, of course, open to argument.

    • Twitchy Woman says:

      Okay, so what about the part of the policy that says “Drivers, monitors and attendants are held responsible for reasonable behavior of pupils in transit”? It’s pretty specious to argue that it’s not the bus monitor’s job to control students’ behavior. Or “A school bus monitor shall mean any person employed . . . for the purpose of assisting the school bus driver with maintaining proper student behavior on such school bus”? It’s absolutely the school bus monitor’s job to actively enforce discipline.

      Also, you’re clearly not a lawyer. :)

      http://www.p12.nysed.gov/schoolbus/regulations/html/section156.3_safety_regulations.html

  4. Nicki says:

    While I understand your point, we also cannot assume that she didn’t attempt to do her job prior to this video taking place. It’s difficult to say what happened prior to this incident. Additionally, maintaining discipline on a bus filled with ornery shitheads shouldn’t be left to a 68-year old woman, who likely has no enforcement authority whatsoever. She is a MONITOR, not a cop.
    – Monitors conduct of students on school bus to maintain discipline and safety.
    – Directs loading of students on bus to prevent congestion and unsafe conditions.
    – Rides school bus to prevent altercations between students and damage to bus.
    – Participates in school bus safety drills.
    – May disembark from school bus at railroad crossings and clear bus across tracks.
    These duties ASSUME that her presence will maintain discipline and prevent altercations. I guarantee you if she got up, grabbed one of these snotty fucktards by the scruff of the neck and forcibly sat him down, she’d be in a lot of trouble
    They hired an elderly woman and assumed her mere presence on that bus would prevent crap from happening.
    No way.
    And she got the $500,000 from folks who felt bad for her for being outnumbered and victimized by these punks – voluntary contributions from people with a heart. She didn’t get it for not doing her job.

    • What you were quoting from my article is a GENERIC description of what a bus monitor does, it was not Klein’s job description. That was not listed on the Greece NY School District web site. What WAS listed however were the disciplinary penalties students could incur for infractions on the bus and enforcement protocol. The NYSED website provided details about state regulated training of bus monitors which included procedures for regulation and discipline. I agree that she would have been in a lot of trouble had she grabbed a kid and messed him up. She would have been fine, however, if she had done any of the things that both the state and school district mandate — like separating the trouble makers, or enlisting the assistance of the bus driver (i.e. stopping the damned bus until the little dipshits got a handle on their crap).
      It is impossible to say what happened before this incident, you’re right. And I do think that Ms. Klein was not an appropriate person to hold this position. I also agree that people have the right to donate their money wherever they want. The problem that I have is that this case is largely a media-driven witch hunt.

    • ol cranky says:

      If she didn’t, at a minimum, report the kids for their behavior she wasn’t doing her job. The more you let some brat get away with something, the more they will escalate they’re bad behavior because nobody is punishing them or holding them accountable. She was in a position of authority and yet she just sucked it up and took it – in doing so, she taught those kids a very bad lesson which had the effect of worsening their behavior towards her and, quite possibly, kids they targeted who were truly helpless

    • Anonymous says:

      It may be difficult if not impossible to tell what happened prior to this video, but it is painfully clear what didn’t happen. Karen did not get the children to sit down and conduct themselves in a civilized manner. That was her job! As a parent in the Greece School District I am very unhappy to see that an adult paid to help protect my children and defuse these types of situations is completely ineffectual.

  5. t.a. says:

    Public shaming was an interesting technique to use. Now EVERYONE knows what these kids do on the bus. I’m wondering what’s happening to them at this moment.

    • That’s actually really brilliant! All day long I’ve been lambasted about the “powerlessness” of K.K., but the ability to publically shame someone certainly doesn’t denote a lack of power. Very interesting! Thanks!!!

      • Anonymous says:

        Well, your premise would be correct if it was actually her doing the public shaming. She neither incited it nor added to it other than being interviewed, which is a whole lot different than a press conference… or do I need to explain this to you in greater detail so you fully understand these actions are not of her making?

      • I was kind of thinking about public shaming on a meta level. Your premise is totally correct. Thanks for the correction.

  6. Anonymous says:

    The guy who set up the account was asking for only 5K to send her on a vacation. People decided to give more, that’s why she got the money you DICK! It’s none of your f**king business either and the only “reporting” you’re doing here is to let everyone know what an as****e you are.

    • Actually, if it’s “none of my fucking business” then it’s none of yours either, right? I mean, why bother to read anything in the news, or talk about anything, or God forbid THINK about anything that might make someone else call you an asshole? How very punitive. Thanks for your opinion. You’re clearly entitiled to it.

      • Anonymous says:

        And another thing. Have YOU ever worked with Jr. High school kids? My guess is not or you would not be so quick to imply Karen Klein was incapable of doing her job. Go work in school for 6 months then come back write about that. I would imagine you have a BA at least. That will get you in the door no problem. No BA? Get a job like the one Karen has.

      • Actually (not that I feel particularly compelled to defend myself to you), I have spent a great deal of time working with middle school kids and teenagers — not that it matters. You’re right, it can be a rough job. But, if it is a job where there are guidelines for behavior in the workplace, and you don’t follow those rules and procedures — you didn’t do the job. That is the reality of the working world. I’m sorry if it’s one you don’t like.

    • Anonymous says:

      You sound like a bully.

    • Anonymous says:

      First i have to let you know, the vulgarity really speaks volumes and helps show just how right you are in your point! Now to drop the sarcasm.
      I think people decided to “give” to make it go away. Like those starving kids that come on tv late at night. It is too much effort to really do something about about a real problem, and knowing problems are out there makes me feel icky. If i throw money at it i can be absolved of my sins and not own any of the blame.

  7. Anonymous says:

    No, it is your business to read and report, but get the facts straight. Fine to report on the 5K, after that it’s about people who care enough to put their money where their mouth is and you somehow, in this world where Snooky is more well known that Kurt Vonnegut, find that offensive and go on the attack against an old woman who, from all accounts, is a lovely and caring person. Am I judgmental.. sure, especially when I’m defending her against your BS that you call reporting. Apply to Fox, they could use another mouthpiece of your calibre.

    • Actually, if reporting the truth of the story is what you’re after, and donations are at 500K shouldn’t the latter amount be the one listed in the story? Wouldn”t that be the truth? What you’re saying that I should do, is to pretend that (because she IS by all accounts a nice lady) Karen Klein did her job well. How can ignoring facts be described as fair or accurate “reporting?” It’s not. However, if the above describes your standards of accuracy, I’m sure FOX would be more interested in you than me. You seem to think that pandering to the lowest common emotional denominator is the apex of good writing. Kurt Vonnegut would be ashamed.

  8. Anonymous says:

    No, what I’m saying is that it should not come into play that private citizens are outraged by the behavior of these kids and are doing something about it PRIVATELY. Had she gotten the money from the schools district and it was at taxpayers expense, that’s is news! You are simply trying to capitalize on the sensational aspect of this story. It’s crap reporting, that simple! You are simply making a story exist where there isn’t one. And Mr. Vonnegut? He would probably slap you silly. Now THAT would be worth writing about!

    • Anonymous says:

      Excuse the typos, am hurried!

    • If these were supposed to be private donations or the fund itself was supposed to be private, why isn’t it? From what I’ve read, people are glad that Karen Klein is getting a large amount of money — in fact, as the amount rises the donations go up not down. So, publicizing the donations is actually helping Karen Klein, not hurting her. Besides, the sensational aspect of this story is the casting of Karen Klein as a “hero” when even she says, “I don’t think I did anything.” That’s interesting to me. Also, this is my blog, I’ll write about what I want. It’s okay to disagree with me. It’s even okay to call my work crap, but you should remember that no one is making you read this or respond to it. In fact, it would appear that you’re attempting to draw attention to yourself as some kind of white knight by denuding me over what you call a non-existent story. How can that possibly be the lesser of two evils? If I’m a sensationalist, you’re a sensationalism parasite. Also, if there’s no story, what the hell are you getting so worked up about?

      • Anonymous says:

        Great points. I’m getting worked up because a handful of brats belittled a woman who could have been my mother. It’s shameful, yet people decide to look up her skirt even more to find something which does not exist. There is no story here except the aspect that people are giving of their own free will, not being forced or guilted into it. They are giving because they care, period. Something which is sorely needed in this world. Now, had you FOUND something worth reporting, then even if I disagreed, I would respect your right to report it. Don’t feel yourself short to be different, you are obviously better than that, so earn your bones.

      • Thank you for what I suspect may have been a compliment. I think you’ve hit the nail right on the head in describing your outrage, and I think a lot of people agree with you. I certainly wouldn’t like it if it had happened to my mother or grandmother, either. We’ll have to agree to disagree about the story. I think that a person who works with kids accepts certain responsibilities. Hell, I think a person who wants to work ANY job accepts certain protocols, but it’s especially important for someone working with kids to try to uphold those standards. When they don’t, and I’m asserting here that Karen Klein didn’t (I know, I’m an asshole), ultimately it’s the kids who are let down. Those kids are pricks, they shouldn’t have acted that way, but unless we accept the fact that that situation should never have happened while children were under adult supervision, we’re not looking at the entire case rationally. I understand that people are giving because they genuinely feel for Karen Klein. I feel for her, too. But shouldn’t the goal here ultimately be to stop things like this from happening in the future? And shouldn’t we be asking ourselves, “How?”

      • Anonymous says:

        Sell yourself short not Feel

      • Anonymous says:

        Your point would be correct except she can only enforce the rule so far. No adult, as stated later here, can lay hands on a child. Perhaps you should be asking why the bus driver did not do his job properly? You have no way to know, based on this one incident, if she failed to do her job properly or not. Do you have previous performance evaluations to cite? Statements from co-workers? You want to be a reporter, do the job of a reporter. What you are doing is called editorializing. It is not reporting by any stretch of the imagination, yet not once have you claimed to NOT be reporting but merely editorializing.

      • Of course I’m editorializing. This is a blog. These are my opinions based on research that I did. Do you often read lines like, “She’s not the fucking Rosa Parks of bullying. Get over it.” on the front page of your newspaper? Of course not. I’m asserting that Ms. Klein didn’t do her job properly because in this instance she didn’t follow protocol. Seems pretty cut and dry to me. It’s fine if you don’t agree. Also, when I was speaking to the main stream media, I was merely saying that there are two sides to this story. I was indicting them for casting Karen Klein in the light that they did. I didn’t agree with it. Just to be REALLY CLEAR HERE: THIS IS A BLOG. YES, THERE ARE FACTS IN IT, BUT THERE IS ALSO A LOT OF OPINION. JUST BECAUSE SOMETHING IS WRITTEN ON THE INTERNET, IT DOES NOT MEAN THAT THE AUTHOR IS ASSERTING THAT IT IS THE WORD OF THE LORD COME DOWN FROM THE MOUNT ON TWO STONE TABLETS. If you want to know more, I encourage you to find out. It could be really interesting, and I would be very proud to have intrigued you enough that you would leap into your own research.

      • Anonymous says:

        “I’m asserting that Ms. Klein didn’t do her job properly because in this instance she didn’t follow protocol.” And you know this how? By watching 9 minutes of video? How do you know what happened prior to or after that video was made? Unless you’re The Amazing Kreskin, you are simply talking out your ass and calling all mainstream reporters assholes for not being as irresponsible as yourself. Get over it. You’re entitled to you opinion, but you are full of it in this instance. Now, you may have the last word because I’m tired of reading your defense of the indefensible.

      • Thanks for that. Just one thing: if Ms. Klein had been following protocol, the troublemakers would have been separated. They weren’t. Ms. Klein was not following protocol. Pretty simple.

      • Anonymous says:

        Sorry, I lied. Just how was she supposed to do this? Physically move them around? How do you know “protocol” says that when confronted with a situation that has gotten out of control to take no action to endanger yourself or possibly others and to report the incident as soon as you are able. I work with the mentally ill on an inpatient unit and you know what our protocol is when faced with a potentially violent encounter. Run the other way if possible and get help. Never try and face a situation alone EVEN if a fight has broken out between two patients. Your expectations are unrealistic and your attempt at a defense is pathetic. Now I really am done.

      • Okay, even you have to acknowledge that comparing twelve year olds on a public school bus to institutionalized combative psychotics is utterly absurd. Also, claiming that the protocols that the state and district have in place don’t work with no evidence, is at least as specious as my assertion that they do. We have to agree, here at least, that we don’t know. If Ms. Klein’s attempts to separate the children before the incident escalated had failed, there are still OTHER things that she could have done — that she was, in fact, trained to do. If you want to know what those are, I’ve provided you with handy links that will enable you to look them up. If you then STILL disagree with them, you disagree with state and district policy, not with me. I’m sure that those entities would welcome any suggestions you might have to deal with these situations with greater efficacy. Please feel free to let them know.

  9. Anonymous says:

    A “generally accepted” job description doesn’t cut it. We need to know the exact job description (and training) this woman had before we start drawing conclusions as to whether she was or was not fulfilling the job requirements. As I’m sure you are well aware, even a 6 ft, 250 pound weight lifter can’t actually touch a child…and they know it. So at this point I can’t agree with your condemnation of this woman.

  10. OLIC says:

    What this tells me is that assertiveness training should be included in the training for school staff. In the interview done with her that was posted on Huffpo, she said that those boys had been making comments about her for some time prior to the latest incident, and she made no discipline referrals at any time, she just sat and took it. She said that she does not like confrontation and didn’t want to hurt anybody, and that it wouldn’t look good if she had gone off on those boys.

    I’m not going to quibble about whether or not she was “doing her job.” I would consider her main job to be protecting students, and the “bully” kids were not harassing other students, only her, and she wasn’t objecting.

    She seems like a nice lady. A little too nice. She does not like confrontation, which, in a job with kids, adolescents especially, would seem to come with the territory. Some nice people don’t like people to think they’re not nice and that’s fine. But standing up for yourself and expecting respect and proper conduct doesn’t make you a not-nice person. It makes you effective at your job when your job is to keep order.

    Nice is nice, but when dealing with kids and discipline, assertiveness is going to be more effective.

    I’m not willing to demonize her or be outraged that other nice people are reaching out to her with empathy and cash. It’s what nice people do. And those kids were being awful little shits and deserve whatever disciplinary crap lands in their laps. They certainly knew better. But Nice contributed to the escalation in behavior that led to this video and that’s not so nice.

    • Excellent thoughts! Thank you! I would like to be clear about something here:(even though this probably isn’t the place and EVEN THOUGH when I was writing this article I didn’t think it would be necessary) I do not believe that failure to do your job makes you a bad person. I don’t think that Karen Klein is evil, or a demon, or even particularly wrong. I do believe that we (especially in America, and probably because of the media) have a really strong tendency to insist upon either canonization or demonization of human beings before we’re compelled to act, and I think that this polarization of human beings is ultimately abusive to the people portrayed. Things MOSTLY don’t fall into convenient black and white categories. In life, generally, there’s not a “right” and a “wrong,” there’s only more right and more wrong (usually peppered with caveats). I think not examining the facts behind the story, that REFUSING TO THINK ABOUT WHAT MIGHT HAVE HAPPENED, and assigning Karen Klein ( what at least in my opinion) is an undeserved martyrdom, presents a problem. What happens in two or three weeks when the media turns on Karen Klein and suddenly everyone is all disappointed and butthurt? How many times has exactly that situation happened over the last two years? Additionally, assigning people to convenient categories based on emotion and illusion is dehumanizing, and really just kind of gross. That’s what bullies do.

      Humans are flawed. I think it’s been shown over the past day and a half on this blog that many people refuse to accept that fact. Until we do, however, we’re not going to get anywhere as a culture. We’re just going to spin our wheels trying to work through bazillions of self indulgent fictions.

  11. dkatt says:

    Thank you for this! I was a bus Monitor in Skokie Il, for 8 years, and have done at least 100 different routes and schools with all kinds of kids, and I could not believe this. She sat there on her dead a** and did nothing while those kids rolled over her. I personally never heard anything of anything like this at my company (or others) and such a person would not have lasted a week. She had any number of options at her disposal and she exercised none of them. There is no excuse for this, none. She allowed this situation to escalate by her inaction to the point where it became dangerous. She told Matt Lauer in an interview that she ‘hoped they would just go away’. Whaaa??? I personally think from some of the odd, disjointed answers she gave that she is somewhat mentally off. And don’t get me started on the donations, ugh.. ridiculous. She should take all of it and give hundred dollar gifts to the GOOD competent Monitors. Or something like Make A Wish. And let me say now to those who would insult me, I gave up my Monitor job (which I miss) in Sept ’09, when my 19 year old daughter was murdered in Chicago, and I moved back West. I am in mourning and waiting to go back there when they set a trial date for the beast who murdered her. As far as Klein goes, I lived my job, I know the protocol, and she failed, utterly and epically.

    • Wow, thank you, dkatt! I think it really helps to have the perspective of someone who actually DID the job. Excellent points!

    • dkatt says:

      Dude you are an animal. I know the job inside and out. This woman fucked up, and is cashing out. Learn it. It’s not good (understatement).

      • Bane says:

        You are wrong, not about the animal thing, but the rest. But I really don’t care that you are wrong, because some people just see what they want to see. The good news is that whether you are wrong or not, and you are, the woman _is_ cashing out for her trouble and that is a good thing. The bottom line is really all that matters.

      • Anonymous says:

        I do feel sympathy for her in one area. Her son who committed suicide. Losing a child is devastating and you never get over it, no matter how it happens. It’s a sad club we belong to, one we never asked for membership in. I usually don’t talk about my daughter’s murder outside of my family, but here I know exactly how she feels.

      • OLIC says:

        So sorry for your loss.

      • Anonymous says:

        Thank you. The court date for the murderer should be sometime in fall and we will be going back for it.

      • OLIC says:

        Damn. I can’t even imagine. Not enough justice in the world. It certainly puts things into perspective.

        I know I’m a stranger, but I do wish you the best.

      • Anonymous says:

        Thank you so much xoxo

      • Bane says:

        “I am no paragon of virtue and I make mistakes.”
        Well that makes 2 of us then.

        “If you feel so strongly about this woman go on a site that supports her and leave your accolades there.”

        Now where is the logic in that? Think about it. This is the only blog I have visited where the majority opinion, actually the post itself, actually came down on Klein with both feet and has been mopping the flow with her, because of a little snip of film showed her at a point where she had lost control of a situation and was emotionally upset because she was being attack by rogue kids. You make mistakes, you say. I believe you. She didn’t have control of herself for that 10 minutes of film I saw. No disagreement there. She lost it. The difference between me and almost everyone else here is that you want to crucify her for it. You won’t let up. Do people do that to you when you make your mistakes? And to make matters worse, you then speculate or everything else about the situation before and after that 10 minutes. Any of your mistakes ever last more than 10 minutes?

        You know nothing at all about what went on before or after that small time frame but whatever little nuggets you can squeeze off the tv, or how she didn’t have answers you liked on Matt Lauer. Based on nothing else you crucify her. Because you were in your mind a better bus monitor. Maybe you were, but maybe you weren’t. All we have is your word how great you were and how she fucked up, your words. You really have no information, but you are judge and jury and you damn her and talk shit about her and make fun of her yourself, how she is going to blow the money in Vegas. Maybe you would blow it in.Vegas; she already said she will donate some of it to charity and is considering what to do next. Why are you stomping her based on that? Because you are a bitter person.

        You may have been a ball busting bus monitor with an iron fist. Does that grant you the right to judge? You try to do e right thing? By playing judge and jury with no info but your speculation. And you make fun of her like she is trash. You look in the mirror and are proud of yourself for that behavior? That says all there is to say about you.

        You don’t like me, because what, because I think all your arguments and the arguments and slander of others here don’t consider the nice woman on the bus, they shit on here for not standing up to a pack of nasty kids? It’s simple really. If the people who hired her for that job knew she would be facing that outrageous environment, they should have not put her there. The should have hired a militant ball breaker like yourself, or maybe la college student jock with some muscle and some threat to them. But they put her in that pit instead.

        Did she deserve to be treated like that? Does anyone? I don’t tolerate bullies. I don’t tolerate anyone who sides with bullies. I don’t like people who defend bad people against innocent people. That’s you.

        The most telling thing about how wrong this is, and why I am so verbal about it, and why you all have this vitriol toward me? This article is about the money. There is a god damned dollar figure in the title. Most importantly, that is your main point of focus. You keep bring it up over and over. Maybe there is something else about her you don’t like you aren’t saying, but definitely you are out of your mind about the cash. The cash is a sideshow to me. I defend her right to be treated civilly, no matter what her rule book says. You just don’t like that good people decided to give her a bag of cash and all you have are fun memories of your time on the bus. that inflames you. And because I think she deserves every cent and more, that makes you even madder.

        Good.

        Want me to get the ban hammer? How about writing something
        Ike a coherent argument about why I am wrong and you are right? Make me look foolish. That would be 10 times better wouldn’t it? No, you just want me to go away so people won’t have a strong counter to your weak attacks to read. Me slither away? I’m an Internet toll? You know nothing lady. You haven’t said anything that wasn’t bitter on this whole thread except sorry her kid killed herself, but she is still a fuck up as far as your are concerned. Very nice. You are a bad counter puncher. You let me write, what a few thousand words, solid points, defending everything I say with logic and you talk simple shit about her daughter’s bad hair. You should just drop from the thread because you are contributing nothing to it but bad blood. Slam her, slam me. You don’t know either of us, but you talk shit like you know us like family.

        Write something substantial instead of taking your cheap shots and maybe someone will respect your opinions. You can curse, use $5 words, make jokes, unnerve people, that’s fine, but make some sense and contribute to the conversation by banging back at my points, not Klein’s daughter’s hair or how she is going to blow your money in Vegas.

        Don’t worry, I can’t entertain you here forever. You will have this littlie place all to yourself. I know I won’t see you anywhere else where people talk about facts and substance. Enjoy having someone to spit at while you can, then you can go back to your usual song and dance.

        I know, it’s tough not being the smartest person in the room all the time, but you will get used to it. Hell, even though I disagree with the author of the post, I have to give her credit. All of her writing was based on her interpretation of her research. That took work. You just fling dirt around.

      • dkatt says:

        Your willfully obtuse defense of her incompetence makes me think perhaps you are related to her? Is that the case? And the fact that you think women are ‘ball breakers’ for doing their jobs well, and in a friendly fashion does not surprise me at all. I had figured you for a sexist anyway. And why would I need to do research on a job I know backwards and forwards? The minor details may differ from state to state but the main theme nationwide is the SAFE transport of kids to and from school with ATTENDANT responsibilities. I saw the 3 videos, read 2 dozen articles, watched the many interviews, and the picture came into focus. The fact that I had seen similar situations develop over time at the 2 companies I worked for and the resultant mess that occurred brings home the point that this woman was not able or competent to do her job. She shouldn’t be trusted to water plants, let alone monitor children.

      • dkatt says:

        The discourse on this blog does not rise to the level of slander, it is protected speech under the constitution and you had better be careful who you accuse. And YOU are the one who mentions the money , in post after post, in order to taunt people and provoke anger. Very cunning and well contrived. That’s why you stay here, because you get the reaction you crave. Isn’t that the essential definition of a bully? Take a look at yourself. It’s time for you to go get your jollies elsewhere. You were told by admin outright to leave. You contribute nothing but insults and provocation, not reasoned debate, just attacks and hatred. Why don’t you take the broad ‘hint’ and disappear, whether it be in a puff of smoke or a huff or whatever you like. Pfffttt.. and you’re gone.

  12. dkatt says:

    Also one of the first things Monitors are taught is that you never allow children to sit behind you, for the simple reason that they could be doing ANYTHING back there. She didn’t do that. She admitted in interviews that she made no reports, did NO write ups, and then wondered why nothing was done??? We were taught to do our jobs, not depend on our drivers. She also could have marched in and demanded a sit down with he boss also, or asked for a different route, called the base from her cell while en route (I have done this). The list is endless. She was not HELPLESS, or a victim!

    • Makes total sense to me! Also, I’d like to add that pretending Karen Klein was a powerless victim (fantasizing her into a martyr) actually encourages bullying in that aggressors tend to pick on those they percieve are powerless. What people should be doing is asserting (as you are) that Karen Klein DID have power, and that (if you’re setting KK up as your metaphor) YOU have power, too.

  13. Bane says:

    You are seriously full of shit. No one is making her into a martyr. Do you really think this was the first time she and other monitors have had to endure this shit? Or that it will be the last? But for the video, she would have suffered in silence. She didn’t ask for money or attention or to have her humiliation. And the rest of you pussies falling in line with this horseshit, think for yourselves. I really can’t believe you are arguing the fine points of this documented abuse like bloodsucking lawyers, parsing bullshit. That’s THE PROBLEM WITH BULLYING assholes. Most of it is taken in stride by the victims and is unreported. This is not bullshit, this is blowback because one of the little apes recorded this fucking crime. Ass-wipe lemmings, all of you.

    • No one said Ms. Klein wasn’t abused. Ever. That’s not the point. But, as you have totally failed to grasp what the point IS, why don’t you just go somewhere else and spew vitriol? You’re boring me, and you’re not contributing to the conversation.. Also, you can attack me all you want, but you’re not allowed to attack people who were nice enough to respond to me with civility. Your other comment was trashed for abuse. Feel free to rephrase and repost.

      • Bane says:

        I don’t care if I am boring you moron. You never had a point. I read your tripe top to bottom and it is ignorant, uninformed garbage from the word go. I so want to post a link to this site where smart people might see it but I am afraid I would double your traffic in an hour and I think that was your motive for writing this piece. Delete what you want, hero. You still have to wake up every morning and know that you are as stupid as a bag of bolts. “Your other comment was trashed for abuse”. You don’t know what abuse is sweetheart. If I didn’t believe you were just a hapless simpleton posing as a watered down web cognoscenti, I would open up on you and turn your pitiful arguments into a withering pile of stink. Delete away genius. Most cowards do.

      • What exactly are you threatening me with — proving me wrong? Go for it. If you’re so capable of convincing the planet that my arguments are wrong (especially if said arguments are the anathema that you seem to think they are), you should probably just go ahead and do it. In fact, if you’re afraid of doubling my traffic, or deletion, why don’t you do it on your own blog? Besides, if I don’t have a point, what the hell are you responding to with such outrage? Do you really think that if the victim of abuse isn’t pristine, blameless, and totally powerless that it somehow nullifies the overall wrongnes of the crime? Let me guess, you’re the kind of guy who thinks rape is justified if the victim wasn’t wearing underpants, right? I don’t agree. WE don’t agree. Big deal.

      • Bane says:

        Ok, by the numbers now. 1) I don’t intend to write a 4000 word piece for your blog, and I already gave you my reason why. 2) The planet already knows you are wrong, except for your 8 readers here. 3) I already have my platform, thank you. 4) “Besides, if I don’t have a point, what the hell are you responding to with such outrage?” I am not really sure what that means. I am actually more outraged at your little chorus here buying into this than I am at you for trying to draw attention to yourself via contrarian opinion. Why am I responding at all is a better question, and the answer is “Because I can.”.

        5) and this is the good one:
        “Do you really think that if the victim of abuse isn’t pristine, blameless, and totally powerless that it somehow nullifies the overall wrongnes of the crime? Let me guess, you’re the kind of guy who thinks rape is justified if the victim wasn’t wearing underpants, right?”

        First, that is not parsed without some real effort. But I did it. and you are engaging in some rudimentary spin. I have been championing the victim, which you would know if you understood anything I have written, and you and your friends are attacking the victim, criticizing her, chastising her and most definitely blaming her. Don’t toss off that ridiculous rape remark in desperation. I don’t vilify rape victims or victims of any type. You are making an absurd attempt to spin this around as if I am attacking the victim, and by proxy would blame other victims of other crimes. Half a brain can see that is not my position. Since that is all you used, try the other half and see if that one works.

        Bonus round:
        ” somehow nullifies the overall wrongnes of the crime?”
        You do see then that there was a crime here. Good. And there was only one victim and you have seen her face. Everything else is moot until you change the title of this wad of snot to “Bus Monitor Victim Job Performance Review”.

        I’ll thank you not to twist my words.

      • THAT’S YOUR SUPER MEGA DEVESTATING ARGUMENT? Not the be mean, but HA HA HA HA! Sorry, you probably put what you consider to be a lot of thought into that. But, still… REALLY?

        I’m not twisting your words. You’re twisting mine. Even you admit that Karen Klein was a mishire when you say that we should blame the school board for putting her in that position. Why was she a mishire if she was doing her job well? Bottom line: you ARE ADMITTING THAT SHE WASN’T DOING HER JOB. You agree with me. Awesome. Yay. Bust out the munchkins and lets get on down the fucking road already. If you want to reward people for not doing their job by giving them money, great. I don’t think she deserves money for that. I’m not giving her any. If you want to, go ahead. Frankly, I don’t care if you donate your hard earned cash to a “Save This Genuine Petrified Canadian Ostrich Turd” foundation. Spend how you want.

        You’re not mad at my chorus, you’re just mad generally, and you want someone to scream at. Have you tried scented candles and yoga? Some people find that it helps.

        Also, threatening to bring your gang of smart people buddies to my site so that they can show me what “real abuse” is, “sweetheart” is essentially the same thing that those children you hate so much did to Karen Klein. Go ahead and haul in your studly buddies if you want to. Just have the decency to recognize your own hypocrisy.

        That being said, thank you for all your comments. You’ve certainly spurred, goaded, and pushed the conversation.

        P.S. No one asked you to blog for me. I told you to do it for yourself. I didn’t offer you a link-back, and honestly it would be pretty easy not to link to me if you just copy/pasted what I wrote and didn’t credit me. I would probably NEVER know, because somehow, darlin’, I don’t think you get the play you say you’re getting. Have at it.

      • Bane says:

        Hi Abigai,

        I apologize for replying out of order in the conversation, but your Wp theme is a little lame in that the reply tree has limited depth (not unlike the blog itself coincidentally).

        You claimed I was boring you earlier, but you are still drawn to my animal magnetism or something because you can’t seem to stop writing to me. But then again, I am very clear that my comments are the most interesting posts on this page, original article included, so no harm done.

        Now that I realize you are a chick writing schtick on a blog whose tagline is that there are not enough cocks in Utopia, and looking at your tag categories, I am getting a better picture of who I am dealing with. That said, I am going to show a little restraint, and then I’ll let you get the last moo or whinny or two out of your system and then I will go to more interesting places? Okay? Ok.

        For the record, I never laid down my SUPER MEGA DEVASTATING ARGUMENT. (Also note DEVASTATING only has one ‘E’, for future reference). So your cackling and braying was all for naught. It only proves that you seem unable to get the simplest points and you can’t follow a thread or narrative or conversation very well.

        If you read my “By the numbers…” post, that was not an article with my stance on this topic. That was a simple point for point response to your “What are you threatening me with ” post. I was untwisting your incoherent post and addressing it, and nothing more. and yet, even that was not easy enough for you to understand.

        Jesus wept, woman. Quit while you are behind before you are completely lost. Your dirty bomb logic is not going to fly, and it certainly not going to go toe to toe with a person who spars with actual grownups as much as I do.

        Seriously:
        “SUPER MEGA DEVESTATING”, “Yay”, “Save This Genuine Petrified Canadian Ostrich Turd”, munchkins.

        Do you talk like a cartoon in real life? Your thoughts are a jumbled mess, you have no debating skills, you mangle other peoples words to make you look like the white knight while you are writing a piece that is worried about the economics of a crime against a woman. Do you actually have an identity you can call your own? Do you have principles?

        Read your junk, and I really mean read it. Are you proud of your ideas? It doesn’t even make any sense. “You’re not mad at my chorus, you’re just mad generally and you want someone to scream at.” Who am I screaming at Abigail or Rubber Cock or whatever name you prefer to go by? Who am I yelling at? I had a smile on my face while I was writing every word. I am smiling right now because you are playing the “David v Goliath” role and thinking that you are putting me in my place while you have a thick nasty coating of egg all over your face. You are writing some of the best unintended comedy I have read in hours.

        “That being said, thank you for all your comments. You’ve certainly spurred, goaded, and pushed the conversation.”

        Thank you for recognizing my contribution to this otherwise extremely lame caucus you have going on here, because it was wheezing until my presence. Since none of you had anything relevant to say on your own, I at least gave you a foil to riff with. You didn’t use the opportunity very well, but hey better than not at all, right?

        “I would probably NEVER know, because somehow, darlin’, I don’t think you get the play you say you’re getting.”

        A perfect example of your mind filling in blanks where even blanks don’t exist. Where or where did I tell you I was getting a certain amount of “play”. I presume you are making the leap that because I pointed out that this is a low traffic site, and that I have my own platform, you extrapolated that into me somewhere saying I was getting a large number of page views. I am right aren’t I? I could have been talking about a radio show or blog or a regular column in a national magazine….but you never asked. You just assumed.

        And therein lies the rub. More free advice. If you ever want to kick things up a notch, you know get more “play” I think is your word, consider not just babbling things into your WordPress posts and first really read and understand what others are saying. I realize some of us are operating at different levels and you may perhaps not understand what I am saying no matter how many times you read it, but you can at least try a little harder. Not many people are going to take you seriously when you write like a 16 year old Twizzler junkie on a sugar high.

        However if you are a 16 year old Twizzler junkie on a sugar high, um, carry on, you’re doing a fine job conveying your persona.

        When someone like me comes to your blog, throwing punches and pulling hair because a lot of folks are standing around talking like a bunch of insensitive self-interested hateful people, you better have some game if you want to take us on. Get out your thesaurus, open up word and hit the help key, so something but for heaven’s sake don’t try to defend the indefensible by tossing my words back at me out of context with gibberish about ostrich turds and munchkins and made up page view pissing contests.

        I don’t blame you, I blame the culture that will let any uninformed loud mouth have a soapbox and you have to weed through all of that shit to find anything useful. Fortunately, I did find some entertainment value so it wasn’t a total loss. I gave every one here a fair shot to make some sense, to convince me of that your point of view was more sensible than mine (and the rest of the country), but it wasn’t meant to be.

        Now if you have any intelligent zingers in your little witch bag (by the way, the girls I hang out with don’t call their panties “underpants”, but maybe that’s a cheeky Texas thing), then holla. If this doesn’t get any more amusing (I know it isn’t going to get more intelligent or stimulating), then I will give you the big chair back.

        Kiss kiss.

      • Just so you know, you’re not a super debater because you run around throwing off lame insults and making claims with absolutely no basis in fact. But it’s okay if you want to feel awesome about yourself. Go for it. If you don’t like my stuff, don’t read it. In this situation, we don’t agree. We’re never going to agree. That’s cool, and WHO CARES? People don’t have to agree all the time. No matter how powerful you think you are, you can’t quell all the dissent in the world — even if it really makes you uncomfortable.

        I stand by everything I said. It was, and still is, my opinion. If that makes me an asshole in your book, fine. “I, Thundercunt” is probably not a tome I’m ever going to read. Cheers.

      • OLIC says:

        tl:dr

    • OLIC says:

      “Most of it is taken in stride by the victims and is unreported.”

      You don’t see the problem here? Bullies, particularly young ones, need to be taught that bullying is not okay. One of the ways to teach this is to, oh I don’t know, REPORT them when they do it. Give them consequences. Sitting and taking it, not because you are powerless to fight back but because you don’t want to rock the boat, is basically consent.

      • Bane says:

        OLIC, she was a little old lady who faded under the abuse. The whole world has the evidence. We still have lots of time and a lot of tougher folks who can help with the consequences. I am missing no point other than people on this “blog” are piling on this woman when _every_ rational outlet on the planet is outraged that she had to endure this. She there is no excuse. Those brats were wrong, and anyone blaming her is wrong. She was the victim, there is no other story, no amount of rationalization is going to clean that up. You don’t see the problem. I see it fine.

      • OLIC says:

        She was not a random old lady set upon by random hooligans. She was employed in a position of authority with many many tools at her disposal to handle situations like this, tools which she refused, over and over and over, to use. I am not blaming her for what the boys did…the first time. What is it that Gavin de Becker likes to say- first time a victim, second time a volunteer.

  14. dkatt says:

    I had read she had been a driver, but for 20 yrs and she was still clueless? Wow. Just wow. On a final note, when I saw the video and where the kids were poking her, I knew right away she had allowed things to escalate, because kids will not do something like that right away, they will suss a person out gradually, so it was obvious it was going on for a long time. It quite scared me, and she is lucky they didn’t do worse. Things you neglect always get worse, much like an abscessed tooth, or a knocking engine. Also I’m willing to bet she had some training. I attended training every year (drivers also/they have an 8 hour class/mandatory) was background checked, CPR and First Aid certificate, random drug tested, and also worked in a school for 2 weeks a year (for Head Start) plus fingerprinted and had to wear Cook County I.D. Before I left the job in ’09, we got brand new buses with cameras and GPS (Illinois law) so this would have already been filmed, which in this case would have been much better. Then it could have been proven she let it happen over time. All in all I am appalled, our company would have fired her. Also re the driver, I have had a few drivers not back me up, in which case I just went around them. Some are happy to let Aides get the blame for things, but she could and should have outmanouvered this. She didn’t even try. I have been called jealous, uncaring, and worse on one other site where I posted about it, and to that I say whatevs.. I know exactly what I’m saying and can back it up. It was my JOB.

  15. Bane says:

    Yeah, whatevs. I get it now. She is an old lady working in a small white bread suburb, so she could pay her bills. Silly woman, who does she think she is? I am sure that they told her she needed SWAT training up front, and I didn’t see her Taser, Glock or Kabar on her utility belt. Really, she had it coming. If she had just drawn on her Judo training and popped an elbow out of socket or just knee-capped one of the little darlings with her piece (which she clearly forgot to bring on the bus!), the rest would have snapped to, straight up.

    She was a bus monitor people. You have to do your 500 situps per day, couple of protein shakes, read the Art of War, all the usual shit. Am I wrong? I bet she skipped all of the self defense training they offered her just so she could go to church and clean her house. I don’t even know how she got through Basic Training or the assault weapons tests.

    I try to look at the other side to though, in case someone with a rational mind quizzed me, feel me? So as I watched the video, I thought to my self, I said “Self, what if she was just a passenger on public transportation bus?” You know, like on her way to the Hostage Negotiations seminars she probably skipped too. What it she wasn’t the bus nanny? What if she was just a passenger and a gang of sweet little prodigies were dosed with an airborne virus and then they did that to her? Poking her, verbally abusing her, threatening her, humiliating her. Filming it all for their jollies. Would you feel any differently, self? Of course not because we all know the victim practically asks for this shit. I mean she probably bit her tongue just to squeek out those tears just to incense them, to make them come at her without mercy. You know, the way she looked a couple of them in the eye, just to try to register herself as another human being? She knew she was only going to stoke the situation. She even dressed like someone’s grandmother, that was the tell right there; she was looking for trouble.

    If you are going to be a nanny on bus a bunch of middle schoolers, you have got to get ripped, you have to be a warrior, you have to be ready to knock some heads together, whatever it takes. Average decent people with expectations that you are dealing with civilized young people need not apply; this is war baby. The company who hired her should have known this was going to happen too. They must have fitness and defense tests and they should have nipped this in the bud. In fact, I think the state should pull their contract and hand it over to Black Water security, get a few Delta Force retirees in that tank, they will keep the peace.

    Anyway, I digress. Definitely, she should be fired, perhaps even tried for inciting a riot, They should garnish her social security to pay for the pain suffering those angels are enduring having their justified behavior spread all over the net. It could take years for those little ones to get over this, if they ever do. You know how it goes, now at least one of them is going to grow up and monitor a bus and deal out the same shit she did. She definitely ruined their chances of becoming a Republican senator one day. It’s just a vicious cycle.

    • OLIC says:

      You wear hyperbole so well.

    • Anonymous says:

      I see your point, really. My point is she failed to use even the ordinary methods at her disposal, to control the situation. Sitting passive was an option she chose. I know these options and have used them all! I DID live this job and I liked it a lot, and I have the personality for it. She just didn’t. And by not asserting herself early on she put herself in danger with these kids, who could have really HURT her. The fact she was a driver for 20 years and didn’t realize this baffles me. I hate that she became a victim when she could have handled it. I would never have let this happen to me. If she had actually done her job properly and THEN been assaulted I would have been the first to send my 20. Not in this case. I have seen everything on school buses and could write a book.

      • Bane says:

        If you saw my point, really, you would not still be rationalizing the truth away. I don’t care if you did this job or not. What planet are you people from? She was not a cop. Do you have any idea how many bus monitors, bus drivers, cab drivers, etc get beaten, stabbed, shot, and yes sometimes only verbally abused? A bus monitor is supposed to basically babysit kids too and from school. They should not be put in a position where they are required to endure attack. And you saw 10 minutes of her life. One ride. Do you think that was the first time that spontaneously broke out. She probably needed the job, no matter the humiliation she knew she was taking. Those kids crossed the line and were in another zip code. If she had reprimanded that little mob, they probably would have assaulted her. If they had thrown a book at her head from behind, which could have easily happened, would that be her fault too. Suck it up. Some kids are just monsters and they need the shit jerked out of them. Who ever gave this woman her job probably didn’t sell it that she would be in a dog pit and if they knew it was going to be one, they should have chosen someone else a little more militant for the job. I look at her for 5 seconds and I see someone who isn’t going to throw down with a throng of adolescents. Blame HR. Hell all of you blame someone else but stop blaming this old woman. There is plenty of blame to go around and she deserves none of it.

    • Anonymous says:

      Bus Monitors are much more than babysitters. She should not have put herself in the position of having to endure an attack. When she did not speak up and handle it they continued their assault. Of course it wasn’t the first time it spontaneously happened, because she allowed itt to escalate to that point! Hello you are answering your own statements. Of course they could have thrown a book at her head, she’s damn lucky they didn’t. They weren’t at that particular point yet but would have gotten there sooner or later, due to her neglect. It’s obvious. And yes there have been drivers and Aides assaulted by students, and parents too! But these were ones who were doing their jobs and these are the ones I feel sorry for.

      • Bane says:

        You are a complete fool. I want to help you: Do not show anyone who still re you what you have written here.

      • Bane says:

        (I slipped on the enter key, but I am doing god’s work so I am retyping it in again to get it right, I _needed_ to complete the word ‘respects’)

        You are a complete fool. I want to help you: Do not show anyone who still respects you what you have written here.

      • Anonymous says:

        Hey whoa wait a minute.. doing god’s work? Really, how’s that working for you? Does it square with calling people you don’t know filthy names? I’m not a god believer and I don’t do that.. and I’m not wrong. I never let a kid on any of my buses get away with cursing me. And the fact of the money? Fools and their money.. in awhile more will come out and people will regret donating. So anyway you’ve hammered your non point into the ground, and, quite frankly, I am bored also. (Yawn) Peace.

    • Anonymous says:

      Go back and watch the interview with Matt Lauer where she appears so befuddled that she barely understands what he’s talking about, and particularly at the point she shakes her head and says she ‘hoped they would just GO AWAY’. That’s when I realized something must be wrong with her. Go away??? She was there to ensure their safety and her own. Where were they to go? The zenith apex of all fails.

      • Bane says:

        “The zenith apex of all fails.”

        Nothing, and I mean nothing, is going to pierce your reality distortion field. It’s quite impressive.

    • Anonymous says:

      You didn’t work this job and you’re getting your panties in a wad. You have zero experience here and you want to tell ME I’m wrong about stuff I have DEALT with myself? Bottom line:wrong person for the job, could have been hurt. And yes I discussed this with my former co-workers and they are all shaking their heads over it. Now why don’t you hop along and become the ‘bane’ of someone else’s existence? :D

    • Anonymous says:

      Oh ya that was redundant, my badness.. you know what I was getting at..

      • Bane says:

        “Hey whoa wait a minute.. doing god’s work? Really, how’s that working for you?”
        Um, it’s working pretty fine. There is no god, I was being ironic.

        “You didn’t work this job and you’re getting your panties in a wad. You have zero experience here and you want to tell ME I’m wrong about stuff I have DEALT with myself?”

        You outed me. I never worked as a bus monitor. But do you have to be a former bus monitor to know right from wrong. And the money thing…interesting angle. It seems like you and the blogger and others are really in a tizzy that someone passed the hat for her and people voted with their money. A hell of a lot of money in fact. Apparently, for most of you, that is the stinger. If so incredibly many people weren’t willing to shell out their hard earned cash to get her out of that thankless horrible position, this article would have never been written, and all of you ex-bus monitors wouldn’t be crowing your outrage. Where I would have expected that others who have shared her experience would have her back, you are piling on her and talking about your superior approach to the job and how you would have been kicking ass and taking names if that happened to you.

        But since you all focus on the collection taken up for her, one has to think this has more to do with the fact that people cared enough about her to buy her way out and you didn’t get anything but the satisfaction that you were the epitome of bus monitoring excellence. Well, that is something to be proud of.

        For the record, her humility in the face of all this is much more satisfying than the backstabbing and Monday morning quarterbacking you are engaging in. You talked to your co-workers? And they all shook their heads over it? I really had no idea you ladies were such a tough crowd. I want to ask you, exactly what you would have done in this situation, like would you have hit out or talked sharply to the punks, or cut your eyes at them, but I know that whatever your response, it would be just talk. Just talk, nothing more. Really, I would rather hear you say that if you were ever overwhelmed in such a situation, either emotionally or physically or whatever, and some dope caught it on tape, and a large mass of people decided that you were deeply wronged and they collected a half a million and said go have a happy rest of your life and put those little bastards out of your mind for good, would you decline it?

        Go ahead, Mother Teresa, tell me you would have said “No, I don’t want your money, I deserved that abuse, I am going to go back to my job and fight the good fight and show those kids who is boss on this bus. Thank you for your kind thoughts and your sympathy and for doing what you think is right, but you are mistaken. I took this job because I know how to handle myself in confrontations with gangs of bad kids and I let my profession down. I need to teach those kids the most important lesson they will ever learn in this life: you do not mess with Anonymous, the bus monitor.”

        Go ahead, please. Lie to me.

    • Anonymous says:

      Yes, yes, the standard comment to someone who posts that they don’t like a certain celebrity, or author, or actor, or the Kardashians or raising money for the undeserving is always,’jealous much’?etc, ad nauseum.. It’s so tired and presupposes that everyone is supposed to like everything all of the time. Amazing. Right before I left Chicago I had a little boy named Andrew on my bus, who we took every day to a center for severely disabled children. He was 8 yrs old, blue eyes, so cute. He had lost the power of speech at the age of 5 due to inoperable tumors in his brain, although he was still ambulatory and responded to his name. One day his Grandma told us he would not need pick up the following week, that the entire family was going to Disneyland. It was a paid vacation sponsored by the Make A Wish foundation. They went and had a great time. I wish instead of this fund going to this incompetent woman it would go to this great foundation that does so much for dying kids. Of course it won’t, but one can want tho, no? My former driver told me Andrew died last year, I’m glad he got to go. Sometimes life is unfair, and we just go on. I know this very very well. Also show me where in any post I said I was superior. I said I handled my job. Klein didn’t and that, oh bane of the Internet, is the difference. In this case sheer incompetence gets rewarded, and life goes on. It happens every day, in all arenas. That’s life.

    • Zachary says:

      Let me begin by saying that everyone has an opinion, which is one of the main reasons the ponies run at Belmont. Moreover, I respect that. Still, despite the fact that I was a little shocked at the original blog, I was not going to express my own opinion. However, after reading what ‘Bane’ wrote, I am rolling on the floor laughing. I kind of, sort of, consider the original blog as blaming the victim when compared with this scenario. A lady dresses provacatively, goes out alone at night, with no means of self defense (such as keys for stabbing weapons, mace or pepper spray, a cellular telephone to call for help, etc.) and gets herself violated. Then, after the fact, people blame her for getting attacked, listing all the ways she could have prevented it when, in reality, the total blame lies with the individual(s) who violated the lady in question. Hindsight is always 20/20. I think Karen Klein did the best she could. Legally, she could not physically relocate or separate the four and, if she had instructed them to relocate or separate, it is likely they would have told her to, ‘shut the f–k up,’ given that is what they said when she suggested that if they could not say anything nice, they should not say anything at all. Or, if they had separated and relocated, they might have caused problems for others. In a way, she is a martyr because, instead of making her tormentors someone else’s problem (which might have escalated the situation), she took all the abuse upon herself and, in her own benevolent way, kept the situation contained. In that respect, I think she did do her job, by making sure no one else was adversly affected to the degree that she was. I am thinking of that scene in the first ‘Death Wish’ movie, where some thugs where harassing Charles Bronson on the subway and he shoots them through his newspaper. There is a darker side of a great many people who might have humorously (or not so humorously) fantasized about Karen Klein doing something similar. That being said, I do not think she deserves any sort of condemnation for not being dressed in a leather skirt and a metal bra, while whipping out a chakram and unleashing a battle cry of a warrior princess while cracking heads and taking names. In her own way, I think Karen Klein showed a strength of will that even Xena would have admired.

      • dkatt says:

        Karen Klein showed no ‘strength of will’ whatsoever. She was an inert slug who just sat there and let her self be verbally abused. She had been a school bus DRIVER for 20 fekkin’ years and KNEW what to do to handle those little punks. She chose to sit there on her fat can and let them poke her while she looked out the window. She let the situation escalate with them til it was untenable and she still didn’t give enough of an eff to report it or do anything. She claimed ‘oh they wouldn’t have done anything’. Nice excuse. When I did her exact same job I would have been fired for letting it go on like that. Those who donated are not looking at the facts. She is no candidate for sainthood. I hope her family totally wastes that dough (it WILL happen and I will laugh) and the pity lemmings will learn their lesson.

  16. Julene Bair says:

    Wow! An amazing number of comments and aside from the name calling, well-argued. You really sparked a great conversation, RCS. I have nothing to add other than thanks.

  17. Anonymous says:

    I am mellowing out on this issue a little bit. Not my opinion, I still believe she was completely incompetent and the money should go to Make A Wish. It’s that days pass and the anger fades. One thing really puzzles me tho is why was she on that bus? If those are regular school kids, they would not have had an Aide. She had been transferred from a special needs bus. It sounds like they created work for her by doing that, because she messed up elsewhere. That’s pretty much the major reason Aides are switched.

  18. Jaxx says:

    Reading the verbal smackdown you and Bane gave each other could be the sequel to the bus incident: When Bullies Grow Up.

    • dkatt says:

      I don’t know if you are responding to me or the moderator of RCS but your comment is clueless. I was a bus aide and I did my job and did it right, I have an assertive yet friendly personality and I handle things the ways they should be handled. I was bullied myself nearly on a daily basis at school and on the bus (many years ago) and when I became an aide I made sure it did not happen to others or to me. I worked with all types of kids in 8 years and you have to be an authority figure and this woman was not. Clearly she allowed this to escalate over time because she did nothing over the course of a year to stop it. She had many options at her disposal and used none of them. And this was the 3rd video! When this happens you handle it immediately with writeups as the first thing, the kids are then spoken to and measures are taken. She failed to even do that much, as her job REQUIRED her to do. If I had gone into my boss’s office and said there was a situation going on for months and not reported it I would have been reprimanded and suspended. She didn’t use her own support/reporting/discipline protocol so noone had a chance to help her! And the fact that she had been a bus driver at the same company makes it clear she should have known already what was required to handle it! One failure on top of another and she ends up crying and cringing and looking out the window! I am disgusted and angry because she did not have to be a VICTIM!

    • dkatt says:

      ALSO at my job I saw a few silly Aides actually DO that, go in and complain about just that very thing, when they were asked if they had written it up before and they said ‘no’ they were suspended for 2 days and still had to do the write up. So they did and the school and the bus companyhad to go in and clean up an almost unimagineable mess. School bus companies can lose their contracts over this sort of thing! It has to be handled stat and in this case it WAS NOT and this led to what happened. I really can’t explain it any more clearly. This is from years of experience and observation.

    • dkatt says:

      And FURTHER, aside from a take charge demeanor, writeups are one of the single most effective tools an aide can use to control this type of incident. Writeups don’t only go internal, they are cc’d to the school, the regional office and the SCHOOL BOARD. They tell exactly who, when, where, what happened, time, date, etc. They are mandatory. She not only failed in this regard but the thought of other children who were not involved being possibly also bullied by these kids is just appalling. Contrary to comments I have read elsewhere, she WOULD NOT have done anything about it, because she could not even DEFEND HERSELF! The first rule of transporting kids on school buses is safety, safety, safety, and this was monumentally UN-safe due to her negligence. Come on here and say what you want, that’s it right there. I know more about the internal workings of schoolbus companies than I ever wanted to know and I KNOW. Period.

    • Bane says:

      Cute. Work all night on that one?

      You get no points for intelligence but 10 for brevity.

  19. Matt House says:

    something some people are not quite grasping. Sure, the ‘rules’ state that there are specific punishments, etc, etc. However, attempting to -get- those punishments enforced is like trying to shove piss uphill. So you wind up dealing with a pack of rabid little turds who -know- you tried (And failed) to hold them accountable… I’m so glad this isn’t my problem.

    • Anonymous says:

      Yes, you are right. But she didn’t even try, she admitted she didn’t write them up. She told Matt Lauer she hoped they would ‘go away’. That’s the attitude of a 5 year old, not an adult. Especially one who was expected to be in charge of them. Her neglect of them over time put her in physical danger. I was actually sorry for her at first and all for her getting a nice vacation. Then I saw the video, and all my training came back to me. I was not ‘super monitor’ and I made mistakes, none of that magnitude of course. But this Lady was a seat filler, nothing more. I wanted to shake her and say ‘what the hell is wrong with you’? Smh..

    • Anonymous says:

      Did you know too that in an emergency school bus monitors are expected to get the kids out of any exit they can (most buses have 5 exits, front/back door, 2 emergency windows, roof vent) and monitors are supposed to lift/drag ALL the kids out, while assisting the driver, who may or may not be incapacitated. Also CPR and First Aid. This woman would not have been capable of any of that. Can you imagine what could have happened? I did many many bus drills. This just boggles the mind. Anyone in charge of kids has got to be sharp. Fail. Just fail. She talked about going back to the job, even after the money. I hope to hell not, take it Lady and go live on the isle of denial.

  20. Pingback: Your (Increasingly Inaccurately Named) Weekly Wrap Up…And, RCS Sets Up Site’s First Ever Ethical Story Problems — Can You Solve For X? | rubberchickensociety

  21. ***Karen Klein the bus monitor allowed this situation to escalate by her inaction to the point where it became dangerous.

    I blame the people who hired her and didn’t follow up to see if she could do the job or not…, obviously she was not cut out for the job, even though apparently she was a bus driver for many years before becoming a bus monitor.

  22. Jill Bowman says:

    I’m with Bane 100%. You’re defending the actions of disgusting little people who are on the fast-track to being adult criminals. I don’t care whether she could have prevented it from getting out of control. None of that was caught on film, so bringing up documents outlining her job duties doesn’t change the fact that you’re still speculating on what led up to the incident and what she could have done differently. She didn’t ask for money. Vilifying her simply because people chose to send it to her makes you sound like a jealous asshole.

  23. Jill Bowman says:

    Unless you’re her boss, speculating on her job duties and whether or not she performed them is extremely arrogant.

  24. B.Rich says:

    When I first heard this story, I was quickly pissed off and felt horrible for Karen. But the more I know of the story, I am glad I wasnt one of the FOOLS to jump on that bandwagon and donate a cent of my hard earned money to the asinine cause after the intial goal was reached (thankfully I didn’t contribute at all) I dont think it takes a genius or a freaking policy to understand what a bus monitor is. In my opinion, it really isnt debatable on what her job requires her to do. I do believe we can all agree that the job description and responsibilities Do NOT state to do nothing but sit idly by and say to yourself “theres no place like home” and expect it to go away. She was there to be the school’s and parents eye’s and ears. If people actually thought KIDS were perfect and never did stupid things there would be no need for a bus monitor, rules or policies etc. If you disagree and think she was doing her job, please tell me why exactly she was on the bus ??? I dont think anybody expected her to beat the holy hell out of these brats,. As a parent I DO expect her to open her mouth and report it! I would expect any adult riding that bus, whether they were getting paid or not to open their freaking mouths and say something. If not to the kids, atleast the school. Also I would be very pissed if my kids were creating a problem that an employee of the school knew about but never notified me about. Especially something that could have this type of outcome for my CHILD. How can you expect the parent to even attempt to fix the problem if they dont know about it! And now the problem has exploded to this ridiculous point. All this BS because the paid bus monitor clearly ignored it! Just because these parents have asshole kids doesnt neccessarily mean they are bad parents! They werent given the opportunity to fix the problem. Karen did, but she chose not to. I wonder if the PARENTS could have a lawsuit against Karen and the school??? Absolutely no doubt these kids are hellions. Once again they are kids. Kids who undoubtedly flubbed up royally. I can almost guarantee they will never do it again. Maybe not because they are truely sorry and feel genuinly guilty for talking smack to an old lady. But because of the amount of humiliation they and their families have endured. Do you really think all of this has made them NOT think she is fat? I doubt it! Wow I guess they really love her now and hold the upmost respect for her! No I dont think so, they probably hate her even more. More hatred, not a very good solution to the problem! But they arent going to express those types of feelings out loud ever again to her or anyone else for that matter! A hard lesson learned. No thanks to the adult and bus monitor in place, Karen Klein. Whom atleast should have displayed common-sense, preventative, intervening actions. Thanks for writing this Blog! I am quite certain there are many people who agree with you. Of course there are those who are trying to justify their knee jerk reaction for pissing their money away on buying Karen’s kids new cars, and now secretly regret it.

    • dkatt says:

      Preach! Thank you! I was a monitor and I posted on here under dkatt and also a few anonymous posts. I believe the truth will come out soon, that she was just a crappy employee and is getting lauded for nothing. Wait for it. People operate on emotion and aren’t thinking at all. Regrets are a b.. and the pro fundraiser who latched onto this should have capped the begging at 5K and shut the fund down., with overage only for the TRULY needy, which she is clearly not. This whole thing makes me want to barf.

    • dkatt says:

      Wouldn’t it be funny if a good chunk of it got blown in Vegas? Look for something similar to happen once her kids, led by her greedy daughter, get their paws on it. I will be laughing. I give it 6 months.. easy come, easy go.. I saw the daughter with an ‘Indiegogo’ t-shirt on. For shame. I hope at least she gets a makeover for the grey poodle hair. Wait for the Lifetime movie, ‘Bus Monitor Blues’, and the book, ‘Bus Monitor Whirlwind World Tour’, with Aerosmith backing her up. God I hope she doesn’t sing.. :D

    • Bane says:

      “I dont think it takes a genius or a freaking policy to understand what a bus monitor is. In my opinion, it really isnt debatable on what her job requires her to do. I do believe we can all agree that the job description and responsibilities” (blah, blah)

      “Especially something that could have this type of outcome for my CHILD. How can you expect the parent to even attempt to fix the problem if they dont know about it!” (more blah, blah)

      “they are kids. Kids who undoubtedly flubbed up royally. I can almost guarantee they will never do it again. Maybe not because they are truely sorry and feel genuinly guilty for talking smack to an old lady. But because of the amount of humiliation they and their families have endured.”

      No, they are not genuinely sorry for what they did, you are correct about that. They are sorry because hell rained down on them and their families. That is for sure. Repercussions are a bitch.

      Those kids are cruel and sadistic. Right now. They didn’t get that way overnight and they won’t become good kids overnight. Now, if someone has kids that are that despicable, that cruel, do you they really need a bus monitor or a bus driver to tell you that? If you’re kids are like that, and you don’t have a clue, you do not have a clue that they are abusive and vicious and nasty,then you need to put down the pipe and go get your clue. (I mean the collective “you”, not you personally, but any parent), At the end of the day, it is solely and completely the parent’s job to raise their kids to know right from wrong and to behave accordingly. That is the end of the story. The kids didn’t “flub” anything. They performed a coordinated hateful attack on a senior citizen, caught on camera. The parents did not do their job. It doesn’t take a genius to know what a parent’s job is either does it? In fact, that is pretty well universally known. More people know the job description of a parent than they do of a bus monitor.

      So please, somebody tell me how blame belongs anywhere but on the parents for not doing their jobs and on the kids for acting like animals. Don’t try to double talk me. Defend the parents for not knowing who their kids really are.

      • Twitchy Woman says:

        Some kids are mean. This shouldn’t be surprising to anyone.

        In fact, it isn’t surprising. People are so aware that kids are mean that they hired an adult to sit on the bus and maintain discipline and protect the less-mean kids. And that adult not only totally failed to control her wards (something that can happen to the best of us), but as far as I can tell didn’t even try. What kind of authority figure just sits there and cries when a bunch of thirteen-year-olds call her fat? Seriously? And don’t just call her a “senior citizen,” my 70-year-old mother is a veteran teacher, still works as a substitute, and if she ever found herself reacting that way, she’d stop even trying to work with kids. It has nothing to do with age and everything to do with simply knowing what to do to assert authority.

        And she’s not just a “victim.” If those four kids had instead been bullying a fifth kid, I doubt that she would have had the wherewithal to do anything about it (and, what’s more, that kid would never have gotten upwards of $500,000 for her experience, even though it’d be much more understandable for her not to have been able to stop it and much more understandable for her to be actually scarred by the experience). That’s what it comes down to, unfortunately. When I have kids, I want the people monitoring the bus to be able to protect my kids from the other holy terrors.

        If you can’t defend yourself against a bus full of middle schoolers, fine. Middle schoolers are awful and not everyone is capable of controlling them. But DON’T SIGN UP FOR A JOB MAINTAINING DISCIPLINE AND ORDER ON A SCHOOL BUS.

      • B.Rich says:

        Bane I didnt realize I replied to any of your comments to lead you to believe I was talking to you in any manner. Maybe what I had to say was jibberish.So far a close 2 to 1 (which you may have liked your own comment) in my favor, so you may very well be right. But I believe the very ligitimate question remains unanswered by you. Once again, why was she on the bus? I didnt expect to find an answer that would change my mind. But as pesistant as you are with your opinion, I thought a very good attempt would have been made. Its all good. I didnt pick you out to bash your entitled opinion, so please dont do it to me. Please have the last word (comment) and lets be done.

    • Bane says:

      Whoops! I completely skimmed this:

      “Just because these parents have asshole kids doesnt neccessarily mean they are bad parents!”

      I guess I just wasted more of my breath. Yes. Yes, if your kids, the kids you are responsible for protecting and teaching and disciplining are assholes, you are definitely a bad parent. What they do when they are adults, that’s on them. But in middle school? Yes, you own that. You may not be a bad person yourself, but you are definitely a bad parent. You can be a good person and a bad parent at the same time. You can also become a better parent if you are not good at it at first. But you don’t get to blame everyone else your kid comes into contact with for your failings. Not the bus nanny, not the teachers, not the cops, the babysitter, their friends or your own parents. (Collective you, yada yada)

      I think even the parents of these kids have had ample opportunity and motive to look at themselves lately and that might have something to do with their own apologies to Ms. Klein. They are not blaming her, they are expressing remorse and asking her forgiveness. Not because that will change their kids punishment, because it will not. But because they are accepting responsibility. It is a great first step to solving their problems. You don’t see them lawyering up or defending their own kids actions as acceptable because they know it isn’t the right thing to do.

      In fact, I think if you contrast the parents current behavior with the haters here, their willingness to show contrition, publicly acknowledging their kids culpability, that shows you there is some hope for them. That is very unlike the voices heard here where a couple of people gather to collectively miss the point completely and share their bile about Ms. Kiein and her gifted cash, people no going so far now as to making disparaging juvenile commentary about the daughter’s hair and creating conspiracy theories (“It sounds like they created work for her by doing that, because she messed up elsewhere.” – pure conjecture, your honor), you get a macro view of things. Good kids and bad kids. Sensible adults and adults who attack just because they are bitter by nature or seething with envy.

      And no need to beat a dead horse, I do absolutely already know that everyone has a right to an opinion no matter how ridiculous, and fortunately all half dozen of you true believers found this little place to congregate, Your minds are made up and are in full lock-down mode. Fingers in ears, ‘la-la-la-la’ chants downing out the rest of the world. I get it. It doesn’t matter. It doesn’t make you right. It makes you wrong. You must think the world is a more complicated place than it really is. It’s not. Wrong is wrong. You can smell it even if you can’t admit it.

      • Bane says:

        Twitchy Woman,

        “my 70-year-old mother is a veteran teacher, still works as a substitute, and if she ever found herself reacting that way, she’d stop even trying to work with kids”

        Thank you. I was sure there was at least one more human being out there who was better than Ms Klein but I wasn’t sure. Thank you for making me aware.

        Pay attention: You saw 10 minutes or her life, 10 minutes of a single day in her life. Do you understand the term “context”? Do you and everyone here only know people who are completely capable of acting without emotion and are never caught off guard, or are never afraid in certain situations? Does everyone you know deserve a bronze bust for bravery and valor? We’ve established that your mother didn’t serve in the military, but let’s establish right now that I have. Some of the strongest, bravest, fastest, toughest people on the planet can sometimes be knocked backward by something as simple and blase as stress. I am not talking about 70 year old grandmothers surrounded by the Children of the Corn. I am talking about people that are trained to shoot and be shot at for a living. Everyone who is espousing that because this lady was emotionally overwhelmed while kids were taunting her and mocking her about her oldest son’s suicide that her loss of composure was the unforgivable sin, and the buck stops there, look in a mirror. Never just had one of those days where you reached your limit? All of you gals never take anything personally and just keep your steely-eyed game face on 24/7. Please. You wan’t to fantasize your mother is the Terminator or made of ice, take your pleasure. I know too many real human beings to buy that for a second.

        Lets also get one thing clear, perfectly clear: this woman is definitely probably going to stop working with kids if she has any sense whatsoever. She has stated she can’t say she will be taking the job – EVEN THOUGH THEY ARE STILL OFFERING IT TO HER. Do you read that. You are wherever you are, bufu Egypt or wherever, while there are many boots on the ground at in Greece who have been deposing her and witnesses and evaluating the situation like it was the Zapruder film and they are reaching a very different conclusion from you and the rest of the people who share your opinion here.

        Why, oh why do you think that is? Left-wing conspiracy? Stupidity? They haven’t found this blog yet?

      • Twitchy Woman says:

        Bane – okay, so maybe she’s a really great bus monitor who had a bad day. I agree, we all have them. We don’t all get $600,000 when we do. And absolutely nowhere in any of her interviews does she say that she’d have done anything differently if she hadn’t been having a crap day. If I were her I’d *definitely* quit working with middle schoolers.

    • Bane says:

      This is a tough crowd B. Rich. Don’t be so sensitive. There is a debate going on, not a knife fight.

      “Once again, why was she on the bus?”

      You did not address my point in any fashion, which was the parents are to blame, yet you cherry pick one of your questions for me again.

      Ok, I’ll play: Why was she on the bus? My guess: The economy is in the toilet. She needs money to survive. She was never attacked in such a manner when she drove a bus, why would she assume she would be attacked as a monitor? She likes kids. She likes buses. I’m just guessing mind you. Why was she given the job. Why are they still offering to let her keep it?

      Your turn. Why don’t the parents deserve responsibility for their children’s behavior.

      For the record, yes, I like my own comments. Those like don’t like are a joked. Everyone who disagrees with me votes me down. So I won’t get the air miles I guess, but my feelings aren’t hurt. The votes aren’t worth their weight in cat food. Don’t lose any sleep over it.

      • B.Rich says:

        Clever! So I didnt phrase the question correctly. Why was she getting paid to be on that bus? You clearly and repeatedly pointed out it wasnt for “monitoring” and I clearly know why she chose the job. She only had to sit on a bus for maybe 4 hours a day, have the summer, fall, spring and all holidays off and receive a decent little salary (considering the hours required of her) Of course the parents would definitly be to blame had they known of the situation and did nothing (as Karen did) Seriously, had everyone been notified of the situation the entire outcome would be justifiable in MY opinion. I do love debates. Unfortunately, I seriously have no time to stay on here and continue. That was my point for NOT replying to your comments. If you insist on continuing, I will try to pick this up later when time permits.

    • dkatt says:

      Hi BRich, just wanted to tell you that the person commentingto you came on here a few days ago and started abusing everybody. He made a comment to me in which his first words were ‘fuck you’d which the moderator erased and he was eventually told to go elsewhere. He is obviously a Net Troll who enjoys being verbally abusive to people on threads where he is unwanted. You don’t have to engage with him.

      • B.Rich says:

        Agreed! If I had more time I would humor him/her. But I truly dont! The play of words does not phase me! I WILL sleep good tonight!

      • Bane says:

        I don’t think anyone has any difficulty reading my words by themselves so it isn’t necessary for you to warn them that you don’t like me. They can form their own opinions. I don’t make it a point to tell everyone you were a bus monitor, because people can read the 10 or 12 places where you already said that.

        If you have something to say to me, you can do it directly. And if the blog owner wants to block me, or block anyone who doesn’t agree with you or her or whatever, she can do that at any time. It won’t bother me a bit. This is just one blog in millions. Suck up to her, she will probably do it.

        As for verbal abuse, nothing I am saying is any worse than you trashing the woman we are all talking about and her daughter, etc. You don’t have any high moral ground to stand on.

    • Bane says:

      “If you insist on continuing, I will try to pick this up later when time permits.”

      No, B. Rich, I don’t insist on talking with you. I am grateful for the brief but precious time you wasted dodging my questions. Don’t let me keep you from your busy schedule.

      • dkatt says:

        I have every inch of moral high ground and I make every effort to live up to my own standards that I set for myself. That’s how I’m able to look in the mirror because I know I did my best. I am no paragon of virtue but someone who always tries to do the right thing, no matter what. I am no paragon of virtue and I make mistakes. If you feel so strongly about this woman go on a site that supports her and leave your accolades there. As for us, we’re not drinking the Kool Aid. I would like to see the banhammer used on you, that’s true, but I won’t ask for it. I trust you will see the light and slither away on your own.

    • dkatt says:

      Thank you, sleep well! I really like your comments!

    • dkatt says:

      Hi B. Rich! Last nite ‘Bane’ made comments to me saying that I and others here are ‘slandering’ Klein. Be careful I think he may be a relative or family friend of hers coming on here to do who knows what.

  25. DesignedForHell says:

    Karen Klein, did she do anything special? I would have to say no, does she deserve a vacation? Don’t we all! Does she deserve Half a million dollars for breaking down due to the torment of children that were obviously not raised properly when she willingly put herself in the situation? Having SO much experience in the child care business I guarantee you she knew full well what the children were capable of. However, saying she doesn’t deserve the money is like saying someone doesn’t deserve to win the lottery. There is no reason to frown on someone else’s good fortune. I am glad she got a ton of money however unfair it is. There are lots and LOTS of people out there that have way WAY worse days than Ms. Klein and the only reason they aren’t getting truckloads of money is because they don’t have the same vehicle driving their stories. The problem is the vehicle, (attention in the form of views, News coverage, or blogs,) NOT because the children tormented her, and it affected her emotionally but, rather, for the society that feels guilty for feeding off this lady’s (now) very public humiliation. Also, IMHO, the reason why this “Anonymous/Bane” person is so taken to defend his/her views is because he was at one time just like one of those kids on that bus, and for that I feel sorry for you! Maybe we should try and get a “vacation” for the rubber chicken society and everyone else “Anonymous/Bane” & his/her sock puppet has attacked in the responses?

    The people that keep giving this lady more and more money need to have their head examined!

    • dkatt says:

      You have raised some good points! I think fundrising beyond the 5K goal was unethical tho, maybe not. illegal, but morally wrong. The lottery scenario I differ on, because if someone buys a ticket they have an equal chance. In this case I’d rather see it burned in a big bonfire than go to her. Love the sock puppet comment, thank you!

    • Bane says:

      Another genius enters the fray. There is no Anonymous by my tag DFH, it’s just Bane. Also, to diffuse confusion that several of you are having, I am extremely male. No need to his/her me or hold anything back. If you know women who communicate like I do, then thank your fucking luck. Sadly, I don’t. And yeah Designer, if you have some money you don’t know how to spend, I would gladly give you a few lessons. Love that badass sock puppet zinger. That was so WICKED! Are you the swinging dick that’s supposed to put me in my place now? Best to luck cowgirl.

      For you dkatt I was, I kid you not, going to respect your wishes and not talk to you, and stop posting here, ppfffftt and all of that shit, even let you get in the last word and everything, two posts even and no response from me, but even when I don’t respond, you keep saying my name, over and over. I’m flattered that you can’t stop thinking about me, just obsessed with me really, but perhaps you could close your mouth if you really want me to leave. No more fantasy lies and accusations. I am not related to Klein, I don’t know her and I am not interested in your libel and slander. Feel free. I’m not her lawyer, so I am not going to sue you. I was just stating a fact. Go away, Bane, Go away, ppfffftt (no please, don’t go, please) right now you dirty man (please, I’m just kidding Bane, love) Get out now! (call me, xoxo), just GO!

      No joke, I was all prepared to grant your wish like it was your birthday and stop posting here. It wasn’t enough for you to get the last word, you have to keep talking smack and now you are continuing to harsh my mellow by telling other people your paranoid fantasies about me. I knew you weren’t bright or cool enough to know when to quit.

      Ok baby girl, let’s play some more. Let’s get all of your trash out at once though before I get bored again.

      • This comment has been deleted due to offensive content. Feel free to rephrase and repost, but (if you decide to do so) please keep your comments germaine to the argument and refrain from personal attacks. Thank you!

      • Bane says:

        No need to be so heavy handed. I read a lot of your blog and your language can make me wince sometimes ecausae it is so hardcore, so you have to understand, clearly, you are setting the tone, from your tag line to your adult language. Don’t act surprised when you see other people talking like they are in a bar.

      • Dude, I didn’t delete people for language or for talking like they were in a bar. I removed those comments (yours included) because I made a rule about personal attacks on people other than me, and I’m trying to stick to it. You may not agree with the way that I choose to judge comments, and that’s fine. You can evaluate the comments you get on your blog however you want. You do have a good point about my language being hardcore, however. That’s true, and it’s something to think about.

      • Bane says:

        I for one don’t believe you should change your language or writing style. Most blogs are very, very boring. Same content, same neutered tone, to the point where you can see right through them to where the blogger is trying to pull their best Wolf Blitzer imitation. Friendly advice? If you feel the need to do that, open a second blog. The irreverent one’s are the most interesting and eventually develop the most avid communities. Sure, there are brawls, but that is part of the draw. Serious when you want to be, free-for-all when it starts to get stiff. You have a strong personality, let it fly. Scrap with your readers when you feel game, hug them when you feel that too. As long as no one is committing an actual crime, or if someone is truly being bullied or is too weak to defend themselves (that definitely does not describe dkatt – she has given me a black eye and jammed me to the ropes just fine), then step in and perform the requisite smack down.

        “Because Every Utopia Needs A Few Cocks”. C’mon, you didn’t create a church. Work it for what it is. Before you deleted dkatt s comments, you saw, they were getting lighter, as were mine. Now, she is defensive again.

        Just a sincere opinion. Food for thought.

      • dkatt says:

        Jammed you to the ropes? Damn, that’s good to know! My point exactly about Klein, she had gone along ALL her life just to get along. I had it happen to me and I fought back. One particular bully came up to me just before 8th grade graduation and apologized. I told him no, it’s too late, because it WAS too late. He ended up in prison. Among other things he did to me (and others) is run me off the road with his bike, I was riding mine on his side of the street and he didn’t like it. I ended up in a ditch with my bike on top of me, bruised from head to toe, it got worse, but I never let him see me cry. That’s my issue with Klein, she had tools at her disposal but she just gave up. It got me upset to watch it. I don’t think she deserves a big payday for it. I never give up Bane, even when they murdered my daughter and her boyfriend. I was going to go to her grave and join her but I couldn’t do it. She was even feistier than I am, a tiny Lion hearted Angel, and I couldn’t disrespect her by giving up.

      • Bane says:

        All jousting aside, dkatt, I am more than convinced you have the heart of a lion and that’s where your daughter got it from. I know I talk a lot of smack, and you give at least as good as you get, and better yet, you can turn it off and on at will. That shows a supple mind.

        My trash talk I throw in with my comments is just that, trash talk like you see people in sports do during a game. After the game, usually everybody wipes it off and laughs about it. I turned it up a little with you because you were able to get through and land some good ones, which is kind of unusual. I seek out places where people are willing to go all in for a little bit because it is kind of a release, blowing off steam. You can see, since I started running my mouth, a number of people have taken a shot or two at me (like sock puppet guy) just because they could sense I was just looking for someone to spar with. He has no beef with me, it just feels good to hit the heavy bag sometimes. I welcome it. Hell, I ask for it. But there is no real anger behind what I say.

        Arguing, debating, that is just a slice of primal human nature. I realize it and enjoy it, especially when someone gets me in a corner that I have to work hard to get myself out of, like you put me in. For the record, I have no stake in this Klein lady at all. I wish her well and I mean what I say no kids, or adults, have any right to abuse or frighten an obviously weak person, period. Do I believe she deserves as much money as she is getting? Not at all. I am obnoxious sometimes but I’m not crazy. But as long as it isn’t my tax dollars, I don’t care who people give their money too. I will be most glad if she gives up the job, avoids further abuse, puts a fair amount of that money to a good charity or gives it to someone in need, and has a peaceful life with the rest. I’ll probably never know because I am no longer really interested in her story because it has played out to its conclusion. I hope those kids straighten their dumb little hiney’s out before they grow up, because otherwise, the world is going to deal them a world of pain if they don’t. I will tell you the absolute truth as I see it; There is nothing black and white about this incident. I could just as easily switch sides with you and argue the opposing position as well as my own. I just took my position because it is hard for me to watch one human kick another when they are down. I just can’t swallow that. As for the money, as long as it doesn’t end up in Mitt Romney’s hands, I don’t really care about it.

        I am sorry for your loss, sincerely. I lost my mother less than two years ago, and I wear it on my shoulders every day. She didn’t take anything off anybody without giving it back, and she was strong willed as anyone I have met. That was one of the things I love about her. All of her kids were strong because of her example. All of her kids are adults now of course, I am old enough myself to have adult kids but I have none, but you know what I mean. If your daughter, Angelina, had half your will, you have every reason to be proud of that.

        I think I mentioned I don’t pray, because I can’t believe in a God who would take so much from people and deal so much pain and then ask for worship, but I do hope who ever took her from you pays immeasurably for taking her from you and that someday you can find peace.

        >>I get my strength from her memory

        The memories must be wondrous because you are definitely one strong person. And you have a terrifically sharp wit as well. Keep putting one foot in front of the other and just be yourself, the full 360 degrees of you; its what I do and it is the best respect you pay your loved ones. You know they would have it no other way.

        Ok, please accept that because a sappy Bane isn’t a pretty thing to watch. :)

      • dkatt says:

        Thank you! It takes a real man to say all that, not ‘sappy’. Yes, she was the best, always told it like it is, my other kids told me she would call them behind my back and yell at them for criticizing me for anything at all. I never knew this until she was gone. Can you imagine? One time she and her Alex were arguing and she actually clipped him in the jaw, she had to JUMP UP to do it, because she was 4’10 and he was 6’2. The whole family is devastated and still hardly talk about it, it’s too much. We are preparing mentally to go back to Chicago for the trial of their murderer, it will be in the fall, no date set yet. The big issue I have with Klein is her weakness, I hate to see that. And her lack of initiative, given her experience. It didn’t have to happen. I hope this story goes away but from things I have read and heard and people I have talked to, there are things coming out in the next weeks (and indeed now) that will show her in a much less favorable light. Anyway I was going to write a little more, but right shoulder and wrist are kicking my butt. If you want to read what happened to Angie and Alex, you can google ‘Angelina Escobar Murder’. And sorry about your Mom, I know that has to be hard. You have her same fighting spirit. Onward to some Advil, arthritis really bites. Ciao for now.

      • Bane says:

        I responded to your post, but I think put it in the wrong place. Its up above in between my many rude remarks. Just search the page for the word ‘lovely’. Goodnight.

      • dkatt says:

        Thank you for everything. You are right about it all. She was going to be a Vet or an assistant, she loved animals and would cry to see them hurt or hungry.. they used to follow her around.. especiall her cranky Siamese, Purrsia.. I feel hot and cold all over, maybe a cold,arthritis in both knees, I know how you feel, diabetic too that’s always fun. You can friend me on fb if you like, my name is in a few of the articles.

      • Bane says:

        Thank you for the invite, dkatt. That is very gracious. I don’t have a FB account or I would take you up on it. I’ll catch you around here later. My wife is in the hospital from her 5th surgery in 9 months, this time for an intestinal resection, so I have a lot to deal with right now. Was supposed to be a routine 30 minute exploratory and go home the next day and turned into another full blown major surgery instead with a week in the hospital and then longer recovery at home. Not making excuses but probably contributing to me being wound up like a coiled spring. You stay strong.

      • Sure. Thanks for your contributions.

      • Dkatt, your comment with your info on it has been deleted. Sorry I was a little late getting to it. Busy day.

      • dkatt says:

        Her name is Angelina. She was only 19. I miss her so much, you don’t know.. she is always on my mind and in my heart, I get my strength from her memory.

      • DeeDeeDee says:

        Dear dkatt:

        I’ve been following this blog ever since the Karen Klein story broke. I just wanted to let you know how very impressed I’ve been with all of your posts. I am so sorry about your beautiful daughter and, more than anything in the world, I hope you find justice and that God keeps his loving, healing hand upon you. Be strong.

      • dkatt says:

        Thank you RCS and DeeDeeDee (my nickname is Didi) I miss her so much, she was stronger than me, she left me so far behind.. Someday I will see her again. Her love keeps me alive. May life be kind to you. Blessed be.

      • dkatt says:

        There’s nothing more to say to you. You are offensive and abusive and I’m tired.. Why are you calling another commenter a ‘swinging dick’? You apparently feel you can get away with anything. This argument has already reached its zenith and is mostly done. I cannot do anything to make you leave, I have however, had enough. I made all my points here and for me, it’s over. Leave me alone. NOW.

      • dkatt says:

        You are very intelligent and quickwitted. Subtract the insults and you might get people to see your point, even if they don’t agree with you.

      • Bane says:

        dkatt, you are a warrior with a heart of gold. Respect.

  26. OLIC says:

    Bane needs a time out.

  27. Bane says:

    I don’t have an ex, or any baby mommas, but nice guessed you to think of me. Women just treat me like a tool for a while and push me to the next one, just like you are doing. Life could be worse I guess.

    Who is Klein? Oh, her right. I though we had beat that topic into the ground by now. No one has given me anything remote defensible to make a dent. But it’s a big world, a lot more problems need attention, underdogs defended, lives to save, you know, the usual.

    Maybe we need to look into that paranormal bus rocking phenomena you are talking about. There must be something there we can fight about. I need to stay loose, muscles toned, wit sharp, you know how it is. I think this topic is probably played. You know anything about the financial mess in Europe (that is my hot button right now) or why BaBa WaWa face is to tight? There must be something we can get into….

    • Bane says:

      We need an edit button in this joint. “but nice guessed you to think of me.” was supposed to say “but nice of you to think of me.” but my iPad spellcheck is eager.

    • dkatt says:

      NO! Goodbye! Thank you to RCS and in the future I will respond ONLY to comments that are CIVIL!

  28. Ok, folks. I’m in a super bad mood over this bullshit. HOW CAN YOU PEOPLE EXPECT 12 YEAR OLDS TO BEHAVE WHEN YOU CAN’T? Are you fucking serious? The horse is dead, its flesh has been flogged off, and its bones are the sole residents of a totally defoliated nouveau desert. It’s totally fine that you guys want to discuss this situation, and (mostly) this has been an interesting argument. But now you’re trying to form gangs, making derogatory comments about other other people’s personal lives, and generally acting like the bullies you claim to be so opposed to. REALLY? Stop it. NOT FUCKING COOL!

    • Bane says:

      Chill out. We were just saying the same thing. In fact, I think we are getting to point where this is turning into a parody at this point. A few of us can’t even fight our sides with a straight face. It’s working itself out. No need to get all Dirty Harry about it. You want us to move to your cannibal toxicology case? Sorry, boring and very gross. Read the latest posts here. They are getting sillier not angrier. Or is silly NOT FUCKING COOL either?

    • dkatt says:

      You are right. Point taken, thank you.

  29. OLIC says:

    Dear threadjacking assholes. Shut the fucking fuck up.

    This is why we can’t have nice things.

  30. Bane says:

    Dkatt,

    I looked up the stories and I have no words that can describe how dreadfully sorry that makes me feel for you and your family. Your daughter was absolutely lovely. She and her boyfriend had a profound effect on the people who knew them in her neighborhood even though she apparently hadn’t been there all that long. That speaks volumes about her character that so many relative strangers had nothing but kind things to say about her. That is a tragedy like no other when someone so young and good who has the ability to leave such a positive mark on others is lost.

    I really cannot imagine the gamut of emotions you must have gone through. I haven’t given you enough credit for your strength by a very long shot. I honestly don’t know how I would have handled that happening in my life. My imagination can’t wrap around that. I just can’t fathom it.

    >>I was going to go to her grave and join her but I couldn’t do it.

    Please don’t you ever even consider anything like that. I do know how you get pulled under after you lose someone who is literally a part of you. I know that feeling very well. You wonder, “what’s the point?” A part of you was stolen away, a source of joy who can’t be replaced. The world has become a smaller darker place. But you have to be honest with yourself. You would do anything for her. That’s not a question, you just would. When I have those “what’s the point?” days, I ask myself, would my loved one forgive me for punching my ticket and throwing the rest of my time away because I just hurt? No way in hell would they forgive it. Emphatically no, they would not accept that as an option. So again, you would do anything for her; that is a fact. And you know given the opportunity to speak, she would tell you that is not an option for you that she would accept.

    People, I am still learning, are surprisingly resilient when it comes to great loss. In any deep bond between people, family members, spouses, friends, there is an implicit pact. The pact is an promise to one another: if I go first, you keep me with you. That is not a burden, that is an honor. Pain is the burden, but the promise gives you strength to persevere. Even now, all the time, I have an impulse to grab my phone and make a call to just to say hi to my mom. It’s just wired into me to do that, and right away I catch myself the floor drops away. But I am rewiring myself to use that as a source of strength. Like, as a simple example, when I have something particularly difficult to do, a challenge I don’t think I am really up for but needs to be done, I ask myself could I do it for her? The answer is always yes. Can I face a new day? For her, yes. Can I look after her husband? Yes. Can I look after her daughter, my sister? Yes. Can I carry her memory with me? With absolute pleasure, yes.

    I don’t have to play those mind games so often, with more time passing every day, but when life gets heavy, I draw on all of the happiness she gave all of us and witnessing her strength, and I think, sure, absolutely, I can do anything I need to do, which especially includes keeping that implicit promise I made to her. It isn’t always easy, but it will be done. Thankfully I never promised her I wouldn’t be a jerk, because you can see how that is working out for me. She knew better than to ask; I am sure she would have gotten a laugh out of just the thought.

    But can see there is nothing I can teach you about grief. I don’t think anyone could tell you anything you don’t already know. You have my deepest sympathies, and I wish you all the strength in the world to get through this fall, and every day, and I hope that you at least get justice and closure.

    And by the way, I clink Advil bottles with you. My knee is jacked up and that sounds like a plan. Have a good evening.

  31. Zachary says:

    I am using my real name. Although I do not agree with the use of the foul language and personal attacks (which seem to be flowing in all directions), I agree with much of what Bane (and those who support him) has to say. I just also felt compelled to point out that, in my opinion (based on what I have seen and read), Karen Klein seems like a nice enough lady that she would be the first person to help all those who feel she did not meet the standards of her job, if they ever needed her help and she could provide it. Having used the word ‘standards,’ I would like to repeat a definition I once heard about the word ‘fair.’ It is as follows: “Fair does not mean lowering the standards of the collective to meet the hopes of a single individual. Fair means a single individual raising their hopes to meet the standards of the collective.” Having said that, I find it hard to believe that ‘the standards of the collective’ ever included putting up with such abuse. When it comes to being so over the line that the kids were in another ZIP Code, as Bane (at least I think it was Bane) put it, I think such behavior was so far removed from the ‘standards of the collective’ as to be extreme, and therefore, I think an equally extreme outpouring of support for Karen Klein makes a lot of sense. At least to me. In my opinion.

    • dkatt says:

      Um, Zachary. This thread is pretty much over and, like the others, I intend to move forward. Bane is very intelligent, funny, and we fought to a draw. If you enjoy fantasizing Ms ‘why report it it won’t do any good I’ll just sit here on my fat keister Klein’ into a national martyr you may continue.. you have my blessing. I have a murder trial to prepare for, the Beast who murdered my daughter. Peace and blessed be, I am turning off the notifications from this site. But hey Xena? Really? That did make me laugh, thank you. More like the Slug Witch from Sponge Bob. Ick.

      • Zachary says:

        Good luck with the murder trial. I am sure Karen Klein would be the first to offer sympathies. And I offer them as well. God go with you!

    • dkatt says:

      No. You don’t know me and could not care less about my daughter. Save it. You don’t know what Klein would do either, and given her complete and utter lack of ethics you could not even hazard a guess, and you have nerve putting her and me in the same sentence. I cared about my job and did it well and her inaction is offensive to me. The fact that the gullible sob sisters turned out en masse to donate is ludicrous and irredeemably stupid and yet cannot be remedied. There are far worthier cause that are available to donate to every day, including my favorite, the Make A Wish Foundation. You just came to resurrect this thread and needle people and unfortunately, I bit. I loathe people like you because you do this to be evil and get people agitated. I hope RCS closes comments on this blog so so you can’t do it anymore. Don’t worry about a God you don’t believe in or my relationship with any deity. Now go read what I’ve written and ponder it, then take your smarmy self else where. (Hi RCS, I know I shouldn’t let these people get to me but it is difficult sometimes. All kudos to you for your wonderful, insightful blogs) The Klein nonsense is almost over and with any luck, will go away soon. Unless she really does write her autobiography (snore) :D

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